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The Occupy Wall Street (OWS) “protest” is entering its 4th week, and apparently the occupiers are beginning to really, really stink.
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Aside from the valuable lesson that is hopefully starting to sink in about the truth of the “welfare state” to the post-collegiate idealists who are there (they aren’t really thrilled with the increasing numbers of do-nothings who are showing up with their hands out and no willingness to do any work), I have a feeling they are about to get broad-sided by the reality of the scope of human greed.
You see, monetary donations have been POURING in.
And even though OWS purportedly started out as a relatively small “grass-roots” protest, the organizers didn’t have the foresight to set up any sort of a system to accept donations from their adoring public.
So the nice folks at the Alliance for Global Justice (ACJI) invited OWS to come in under their “umbrella”. For a mere 7% of the take (!), ACJI offers “fiscal sponsorship for grassroots non-profits which agree with our Vision and Mission Statements but do not have their own 501(c)(3) status, thus making donations to those projects tax-deductible to the donor as well.”
Not only are these kids trusting a BANK to hold their new-found windfall for them, they aren’t going to have to pay taxes on any of that money – which, ironically enough, makes them no better than those Wall Street fat cats that they are protesting.
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Fortunately for them, ACJI has a gentleman on their board of directors who manages a private investment firm in New York City, so he should be able to give them advice on how best to invest that money:
[…..] is an investment manager in private practice in New York City. He received his A.B. in International Relations from Brown and his M.B.A. from Harvard. [He] serves on the Boards of three other prominent national progressive organizations.
But as rich as that irony may be, it pales in comparison to what is going to happen when the first real cold weather hits and the pampered ones decide to pack it all in and move back home.
I have no idea how much money has been donated to “the cause” at this point; that’s for the OWS folks to sort out with the ACJI people. Since this is a “leaderless” movement, it should be a real hoot seeing what the consensus is for divvying up the spoils – given this weekend’s frivolity in Atlanta, I’m guessing they might get around to settling on the agenda of the initial meeting sometime after the 2012 Presidential elections.
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There should be quite a few spoils to go around – after all, they are getting food, clothing, supplies, and bedding donated by good people all across the country. I don’t know what the arrangement is between them and the City of New York, but I’m betting the electricity to power all of their laptops and such is being donated, the use of the park was comped, and permit fees have been waived.
The taxpayers of NYC are paying the salaries of the police officers who are tasked with keeping order, so essentially these kids are getting protection for free. The National Lawyers Guild has offered their services pro bono to any protesters who get arrested, and several unions and other groups are more than eager to bus in paid protesters to swell the ranks and make the protest look larger than it actually is (and some of these kind folks might be willing to rough up the cops for no additional charge).
So all of this money is just piling up in a bank account somewhere while these kids live off of the kindness of strangers.
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For all of their high talk of “consensus”, when this circus finally pulls up stakes and leaves town I have a feeling that these kids are going to find out mighty quickly just what money REALLY means to people – and I’m not talking about the “evil 1%” that they have been railing against the past couple of weeks.
They’re going to find out that it doesn’t matter that they did all of the work and they were the ones who spent all of their time manning the “front lines”; after the ACJI gets their generous cut, the professional jackals are gonna come calling.
Whether there is anything left after those fine folks are through fighting over the spoils or not, there are going to be plenty of folks who did absolutely nothing, standing there with their hands out; if they don’t get what they consider “their fair share”, they are going to be pissed off.
These kids are going to experience first-hand what happens in the Utopias that they envision; fortunately for them, they will be protected by both the fine men and women of the New York Police Department and the American legal system.
In other countries where this same “Utopia” has been attempted, the lawyers and the police forces tend to be no better than the rest of the folks who expect to be paid – if those with the money don’t pay up, the folks providing protection will simply turn the mob loose. It has happened throughout history everywhere that any system other than Capitalism has been tried.
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These kids would do well to remember that they live in a country where the Rule of Law abides, rather than the Rule of Man. The reality of the “new system” that they are advocating isn’t very pretty when one person has what another one wants. In such a system, the Law of the Jungle will always prevail, and the jungle isn’t very kind to “waifish blue-eyed grad students with expressive wrists“.
These kids are about to be taught a very harsh lesson about the reality of human nature, but it’s one that all of us have to learn at one time or another.
There is – unfortunately – no teacher like experience.
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[Cross-posted at RedState]
[Update 10/10/11]: Thanks to R.Stacy McCain for the link at his site! Check out his hilarious post on the latest “Downfall” parody video –
Thanks also to the fine folks at Pundit and Pundette for the link at their site (I’ve always loved the picture of Pundette “taking all the glory”….)!
[Update 10/11/11]: Wow! Made “The Best of the Rest” at Right Wing News and Doug Ross’s Larwyn’s Linx today – thanks so much!
Koch's Tour 
WONDERFUL!!!
MOM
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Thanks! It makes my day when my Mom likes my posts – 🙂
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Good post, glad to see you keep after this topic.
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Ever since the little SNAFU occurred with the bank and their money, I have been wondering. No one is named as owner of the account.
Get ready for a huge fight between the OWS and the peeps holding pursestrings.
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I just love a good Progressive-on-Progressive fight; let them duke it out on the sidelines while we get the country back on the right track.
The “Consensus Kids” are about to get their clocks cleaned by the hard-core gutter fighters…..
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Maybe I should make a trip to New York and steal a few Mac laptops to pay off my student loans. I’m not greedy – I am the 99%.
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You owe me a new keyboard….. 😛
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Pingback: Occupy Wall Street – What Happens to the Money that’s being Donated? | RedState
Why do you despise these people so much? Is it because of your need to at any length feel superior? These are Americans, having their moment and speaking out as is their right, and in case you haven’t noticed, these discussions have spread across the entire United States – they are no longer limited to NYC, and they are certainly not motivated or centered upon Communist ideologies. If the best analysis you can offer is to project your own cynical and negative presumptions upon them because they have partnered with an agency that will provide structure to the funds that are ‘pouring in,’ then you again have found a unworthy tangent to hang your tri-cornered hat upon. This whole affair is not about forging a Utopia, it’s an effort to raise awareness and point the way back to fairness for all.
“Not only are these kids trusting a BANK to hold their new-found windfall for them, they aren’t going to have to pay taxes on any of that money – which, ironically enough, makes them no better than those Wall Street fat cats that they are protesting.”
Regarding the above statement. They would not pay taxes if the funds have 503(c) status – as they are a not-for-profit entity & they have never been FOR PROFIT. Though the WSFC’s you refer to are completely, entirely and unabashedly driven by PROFIT. So, your point has no basis in reality – Profits are taxable; not-for-profit are not taxable…
&btw…You’re going to get the country back on the right track? Now, who’s dreaming of Utopia?
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Reading comprehension really isn’t your strong suit, is it?
Go back and READ the entire post – all the way through, including the links. Think about what the POINT of the post is. I am not making fun of these people; I am simply making the observation that they are about to find out the hard way that it isn’t just the 1% that is greedy, it is human nature.
When you feel like you have a thorough understanding of the message of this post, then you can attempt to make an intelligent argument. What you are doing right now is drive-by sniping, and quite frankly, it doesn’t become you.
Quit trying to project your noble ideas onto the blank canvas that you think this movement is; read some of the links and find out the truth about what is going on behind the scenes of this so-called “movement”.
I think you will find that it is not just the conservative blogs who have a problem with this – many of the liberal blogs ALSO have a problem with these people because they are distracting from the message and making their “side” look ridiculous; there are links to those sites in this post.
&btw…You’re going to get the country back on the right track?
I don’t believe I said that anywhere in this post, so kindly quit putting words in my mouth.
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“I just love a good Progressive-on-Progressive fight; let them duke it out on the sidelines while we get the country back on the right track.
The “Consensus Kids” are about to get their clocks cleaned by the hard-core gutter fighters….”
There’s your very own quote – no, it was not contained in the article, it was a reply to a comment, which makes it your words, your thoughts, your delusion. In regard to your condescending reply to my comment upon your post…I get what you are trying to say, and reiterate that your stance is speculative and presumptuous. I do not need to read blogs from others who portend to know the ‘real story.’ These events are occurring right under my nose – I can see them for myself, and I can also decide for myself. If you think you are getting the ‘truth’ from conservative or liberal blogs – please see the above sentence regarding presumption. The only thing you are getting from conservative blogs is the concept that the protests and gatherings are ‘class warfare, anti-American, anti-capitalism, etc.’ Why? Because they have confused fact with fear. As far as liberal blogs are concerned – most are behind this movement. Keep cherry-picking, later we’ll make pies…
PS. To the person who wants to come to NYC to steal laptops to pay for their college loans. Please know that you will be welcome here and I am sure someone will loan you a laptop, as they also fight for your future.
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The comment about the laptop was from my DAUGHTER; obviously you aren’t able to appreciate the intricate nuances of her wry sense of humor.
Do try to keep up, CLN – it’s not sporting of me to keep batting you around like this…..
…There’s your very own quote – no, it was not contained in the article, it was a reply to a comment, which makes it your words, your thoughts, your delusion.
Again, where is the word “Communism” used? DON’T put words into my mouth.
As to my getting the “truth” from other blogs, perhaps you are too young to have heard the word “perspective” – what I get from other blogs and news outlets is other peoples’ PERSPECTIVES on situations; I analyze all of those perspectives and come up with my own OPINION.
If you don’t like my OPINION – which, incidentally, is all that this blog is – then DON’T READ IT. It’s a free country; last time I checked, no one was twisting your arm and forcing you to read my little blog.
It is awfully “presumptuous” of you to think that your observation is the only one that matters; I’m going to assume that you are young, and let that one go. You’ll outgrow it eventually.
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…they are certainly not motivated or centered upon Communist ideologies…
Again, quit putting words in my mouth – I do not believe that I mentioned the word “Communist” once in this thread; what I said was:
followed by a picture of Lenin.
You’ve heard the phrase, “A picture is worth 1000 words”, correct? I assume you also are aware that certain images are quite powerful and leave no question as to their meaning?
Perhaps you aren’t clever enough to catch the insight of my statement juxtaposed with the picture; that particular picture is a representation of all of the political and economic systems that DO NOT and HAVE NEVER worked; the Soviet system just happens to be the one that most people in this country have studied in school.
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…Regarding the above statement. They would not pay taxes if the funds have 503(c) status – as they are a not-for-profit entity & they have never been FOR PROFIT. Though the WSFC’s you refer to are completely, entirely and unabashedly driven by PROFIT. So, your point has no basis in reality – Profits are taxable; not-for-profit are not taxable…
Do try and keep up, sweetie – the statement that you were referencing was pointing out the IRONY of this group bellowing that the top 1% of income earners aren’t “paying their fair share”. All of these malcontents think that the 1% should be paying MORE in taxes – it’s only “fair”, after all.
If they think that everyone should be paying their “fair share”, I would invite them to go to http://www.irs.gov and EDUCATE themselves about the reality about who is paying their “fair share”. There are plenty of charts and diagrams that will lay it out in black and white.
You want “fair share”? Frankly, I would LOVE that – where can I sign up for that? Everybody pays the same PERCENTAGE of their income – what could be fairer than that?
Incidentally, EVERY company in this country is driven by PROFIT – Apple doesn’t exactly give its iPhones away for free, now do they? If you would like to live in a country where companies don’t work to make a profit, then by all means feel free to move to one, and then be sure and write back to me and tell me what a wondrous place it is, m’kay?
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Your suggestion sounds very alluring…maybe I am dense but your example of irony is a little weak. It would be irony if the OWS crew were in fact profiting from these contributions, and receiving tax-free status then one could howl, “Oh! Look at these who pay no taxes criticizing those who do!. Oh, the irony!” But they are not a corporation or profit making entity, so the tax angle really does not figure…
Of course companies make profits. Of course they should make profits.
OK…General Electric grossed, I believe, 14 Billion, and got a refund…They have 900+ employees whose job is to handle ‘the how can we save this co. from paying taxes’ question.
The question is not how much profit a company makes.
The question being asked across this country, at all these rallies, is what is being done with profit? And is the game rigged? Is there so much private influence in America that the deck has become increasingly stacked against the consumer?
Apple increased their margin by understanding that people would pay more for a superior product. If you’ll notice, Apple products are expensive – and they are the darling of Wall St. Steve Jobs just passed away. We can see from the outpouring of love for this man that he was revered and celebrated by the youth of this world – the same youth who are amongst the protestors – believe me, this ain’t the pc crowd. Do they hate Steve Jobs for being an alleged SOB CEO? Do they break their laptops in the streets? Do they wish anything but great appreciation for Apple & their products? The iPhone4s just got a million pre-orders. I’m sure you’ll find one or two in the crowd who will say that the parts are manufactured in China under oppressive conditions…but the majority would pick this man up upon their shoulders if they could and carry him from Zuccotti to Wash. Sq. park.
They are not against capitalism or making a profit. They are against those who seek to manipulate capitalism for their own avarice, and sometimes at the cost of the general population…
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It would be irony if the OWS crew were in fact profiting from these contributions
What, exactly, do you think of when you hear the word “profit”? What is “profit”, if not “what is left over after all of the bills are paid”? A simplified explanation to be sure, but I think it sums it up.
The term “non-profit” as it applies to an organization merely refers to its TAX DESIGNATION in the eyes of the IRS; there are certain rules that have to be followed, but ALL “non-profits” “make” money – they take them in through donations, rather than by an exchange of money for goods.
When you and I pay governmental taxes, it is with an understanding that the money will be used to pay for things like policemen, firemen, and government administration (making government “work”). Instead of everyone having to enter into a contract with a private security firm, for instance, there is a tacit agreement between the people who live in a city and their government that the city/county/state/country will provide that service in exchange for payment from the citizenry.
These kids and their 3-week-long camp-out have cost the TAXPAYERS of New York City an estimated additional $2 MILLION for the police protection that is being provided to them. These kids aren’t paying ANYTHING in taxes on the money that is being donated to them, so in essence they ARE benefitting by not having to pay taxes.
My guess is that a lot of these kids’ families don’t actually LIVE in NYC, so their parents aren’t paying taxes in the city, which means that they aren’t paying the salaries of these fine officers, either; the taxes that are paid by the citizens of NYC are having to be used to provide services to people who DON’T CONTRIBUTE TO THE TAX BASE.
I ask you – is that “fair”?
A company’s profit consists of the difference between the cost of employees’ salaries and benefit packages, payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, materials, utility costs, etc., and the amount of money that they take in from the sale of their goods and services. Whatever is left over is PROFIT. ALL companies invest ALMOST ALL of their profits back into the company so that they can grow (and when they do that, they are in turn able to hire more employees – ALL of whom will be paying taxes on the money they make in salary).
EMPLOYEES are the ones who pay taxes on the money that they make. If you were to tax a corporation on their profits, there would be less money for that company to re-invest and to grow. There would be less money to hire new employees and buy new equipment. And companies are going make that money up by charging their CLIENTS more for their goods and services.
Now, mind you – we CLIENTS (you and me) will already be paying taxes on our income. The increased amount that we would then have to pay for a company’s goods and services will mean that we cannot afford to purchase as much as we used to, and we will in essence be “double-taxed”, as we all pay sales taxes on most of those goods.
You think the economy is stalled right now? You start making these companies pay their “fair share”, and you ain’t seen nothin’ yet – the country will come to a grinding halt.
What do you consider “fair share” – more taxes being paid by a company to feed the voracious beast that is today’s government, or those same companies being allowed to take their “profit” and hire more employees? When a company hires an employee, that is one more person contributing to the tax base, one more person purchasing goods and services with their salary, one more person who has a personal stake in their community.
If a company doesn’t have the money to hire that employee, then that person might very well end up on government assistance. Now, where does that money come from? The “government” doesn’t “make” money, it “takes” money. People on welfare/food stamps/public healthcare don’t pay ANY taxes on their “benefits”, so they aren’t contributing anything to their community.
EVERY additional person that is added to the government rolls is one less person paying for municipal services; every time that they “purchase” goods and services, they are using money taken from OTHER people’s taxes.
So you tell me which is better – imposing impossibly high taxes on companies so that the country can come to a grinding halt, or letting companies pay less in taxes so that they can use their profits to provide more goods and jobs for future taxpayers?
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They are not against capitalism or making a profit. They are against those who seek to manipulate capitalism for their own avarice, and sometimes at the cost of the general population…
Again, I would suggest that you take the time to research a little organization called “Adbusters” – they are the folks who organized this little shindig. I got LAMBASTED on my original post for daring to suggest this, but the funny thing is that ALL of the reporting that I have seen from the AP, the major news organizations, CNN, MSNBC, and other cable news outlets HAS CONFIRMED THIS.
Dig a little deeper and find out more about the person who is behind Adbusters – a European-born gentleman who currently lives in Canada – you will find that he HATES capitalism in all of its forms; he wants to “wreck the world” (his words, not mine). He and his theoretician friends would like to bring “soft regime change” to America – you know, the kind that happens peacefully EVERY 4 YEARS at the ballot box?
What is interesting to me, though, is that these kids are blaming THE COMPANIES rather than the governmental entities that have caused this to happen in the first place.
The VERY uncomfortable truth is that DEMOCRATS are the ones who benefit more from this cronyism than Republicans (although they are also part of the problem). Do a little more digging and you will also find that a certain big Wall Street Firm (*cough*GoldmanSachs*cough*) was one of President Obama’s LARGEST donors in 2008.
If these kids REALLY want to effect change, then they should be railing against the government, not the corporations – which, incidentally is EXACTLY what the Tea Party has done and continues to do.
You probably aren’t going to be seeing any more huge Tea Party rallies like there were a couple of years ago, precisely because that anger has been channeled into many of those same people becoming politically active in their communities and states. The 2010 Republican landslide didn’t happen in a vacuum – there were many, many “Tea Partiers” working behind the scenes to bring about REAL change on the political landscape.
The Tea Party members – many of whom are either Republicans or Independents – are holding these new members of Congress accountable for their actions, and it is scaring the pants off of all of the Old Guard, because they know that they are not going to be able to conduct “business as usual” any more.
One has to wonder just how many of the kids who are down there right now are actually registered to vote. And of those who ARE registered to vote, how many of them voted in the 2010 elections? How many of them have taken the time to find out about their governmental representatives at the city and state levels? Because that’s where it all starts.
If they tell me that they don’t vote, then they have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to be complaining about how things are; as my Government teacher told us in High School, “If you don’t vote, you don’t have any right to complain.”
If these kids don’t vote, then they are part of the problem, not part of the solution…..
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Here is a good site discussing this very topic and show how $$ from Lobbying breaks down.
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/index.php
Overall, the financial industry contributes more to Republicans over Democrats but I still hold firm that BOTH are to blame.
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OK…General Electric grossed, I believe, 14 Billion, and got a refund…
Which political candidate got HUGE donations from General Electric in 2008? (I’ll give you a hint; his initials are “Barack Obama”)
Which political party got HUGE donations from GE in 2008? (It starts with “Democrat”)
There is a wonderful book that was published earlier this year, Reckless Endangerment. If you want to know just who is scratching whose back, I would suggest that you find a copy and read it cover to cover. It’s time to open your eyes and see things as they REALLY are. If you are willing to be spoon-fed information and not have to go looking for it – not bother to THINK – then by all means, continue to mindlessly listen to what “your betters” are telling you.
Frankly, I get the feeling that you are capable of learning about this stuff, but right now you are only willing to hear one side of the story. It’s time to start doing your homework; time to grow up and quit letting others do your thinking for you.
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Careful with the “Reckless Endangerment” book. Accepting it as complete truth would not be prudent or correct. The arguments being made by Rosner & Morgenson are not widely accepted as truth. I would say that it could be more accurately described as a new exploration of the past that drastically overestimates the decisions made by previous administrations.
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Apple increased their margin by understanding that people would pay more for a superior product. If you’ll notice, Apple products are expensive – and they are the darling of Wall St.
Do you have any idea what Apple’s profits were for FY2010?
I didn’t, so I looked it up – it took all of 30 seconds.
Funny thing – Apple’s profits in 2010 were…… $14 Billion (look in the box in the right-hand column).
Even funnier? GE’s profits in 2010 were….. $12 Billion – a full $2 Billion LESS than Apple made in 2010.
We can see from the outpouring of love for this man that he was revered and celebrated by the youth of this world – the same youth who are amongst the protestors – believe me, this ain’t the pc crowd. Do they hate Steve Jobs for being an alleged SOB CEO? Do they break their laptops in the streets?
Hmmmm…..given the numbers above, I would say that it is the height of hypocrisy that they AREN’T doing exactly that…
Do they wish anything but great appreciation for Apple & their products?
These kids may lionize Steve Jobs and all of the cool things that he invented (heck, I studied Engineering in college – I stand in AWE of this man’s achievements; he truly changed the landscape of our lives), but they need to bear in mind that if not for companies like GE – which provide the products that allow electricity to come into our homes – Mr. Jobs’ products would be nothing more than very pretty paperweights.
What GE provides may not be very sexy, but it IS vital to the quality of life in this country.
I wouldn’t be so quick to condemn a company that provides the platform upon which every modern-day convenience runs. Were it not for easily available electric power and the innovations that companies like GE provide – how, exactly, do you get power to that tiny rechargable battery that allows your iPhone to be so portable, anyway? – our country would not be the exceptional place that it is.
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…believe me, this ain’t the pc crowd…
BZZZZZT! But thank you for playing their game:
http://feministing.com/2011/10/04/guest-post-my-hope-for-occupy-wall-street/
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….These are Americans, having their moment and speaking out as is their right, and in case you haven’t noticed, these discussions have spread across the entire United States – they are no longer limited to NYC….
I guess you’re a Tea Party supporter, after all…. 😛
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Both (Tea Party & OWS) are practicing their democratic right, oddly enough, both are complaining about very similar topcis. Funny that they can’t see eye to eye or see the common ground that they share.
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THIS common ground?
“America should mean that Democracy and Capitalism is over”
Sorry, not gonna happen – I share NOTHING with people who feel that way about this country…..
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Why do you despise these people so much? Is it because of your need to at any length feel superior? These are Americans, having their moment and speaking out as is their right……
…..If the best analysis you can offer is to project your own cynical and negative presumptions upon them because they have partnered with an agency that will provide structure to the funds that are ‘pouring in,’ then you again have found a unworthy tangent to hang your tri-cornered hat upon. This whole affair is not about forging a Utopia, it’s an effort to raise awareness and point the way back to fairness for all.
THESE are the people that you and others are defending – from Main Street to the Halls of Congress, THESE are the “Freedom Fighters” who are going to “change the world” according to the mainstream networks. You guys OWN this movement now that you have so wholeheartedly embraced it – behold the future that this group envisions for the rest of the country.
I especially like this video where the “elite” of this crowd CHEER when the speaker says that “America should mean that Democracy and Capitalism is over” (0:00-0:19) – such an inspiring and rousing affirmation of this country and all that she stands for, don’t you think?
If this is their idea of what they want this country to look like, then HELL YES, I despise them and everything that they stand for. THIS isn’t my vision of the country that I want to leave for my children and future grandchildren.
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Remember Democracy is a form of government, Capitalism isn’t. It is an economic system. Where in the Constitution does it say “Capitalism”? or that we are founded as such? If that is the case and we are founded as a Democracy (either direct or representative) it trumps capitalism if it infringes upon the rights of citizens…that may or may not be something you agree with.
What I believe you have in common with these people is that they are expressing what they believe to be right, they are organizing and protesting against the people/organizations they believe are infringing upon their rights. Both of which are qualities supported by OWS and the Tea Party aside from who it is directed at.
Here is an interesting perspective on this very issue: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/10/why-the-tea-party-and-occupy-wall-street-should-cooperate/246413/
Also I still have a hard time believing the main “goal” of this movement is to change the idea of what it means to be American – a few bad apples are everywhere, including the Tea Party: http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/racism-tea-party-11157517
Now should we assume that all members of the Tea Party are racist and thereby their views of the country are invalid, archaic and exclusive? Again there are differences between the groups but I still believe BOTH are using the system to protest (either government or Wall Street) to get their point across.
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I’ll be putting up a post about this either tomorrow or Thursday (depending on when it gets finished).
Here’s an interview with the person who started the ball rolling: http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/10/07/Kalle-Lasn-Occupy-Wall-Street/
And the anarchist who helped organize it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/25/occupy-wall-street-protest
He’s thrilled beyond words: When the history is finally written, though, it’s likely all of this tumult – beginning with the Arab Spring – will be remembered as the opening salvo in a wave of negotiations over the dissolution of the American Empire.
You tell me what the REAL purpose of this whole protest is…..
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previous post of mine on your other blog post:
https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
Really sounds like a big scare tactic, again should I assume the Tea Party is bringing back the Articles of Confederation?
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Also a common theme of yours throughout this has been to that the “kids” are either in over their heads or will break when the reality of life sets in ie. cold of winter, etc.
We shouldn’t forget that the youth of the country helped to shape another very passionate movement recently:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Americans_for_Liberty
Young Americans for Liberty: http://www.yaliberty.org/
This group was a branch off of Ron Paul’s failed election campaign, that being said should we assume that the Tea Party is a cover for putting Ron Paul into a position of power (funny I know but with reason…actually I like Ron Paul)
I guess because I am not a member of either movement it feels easy for me to see the critics of the OWS as being overly defensive, just as the crtics of the Tea Party Movement were defensive, insulting and dismissive of the people taking part in that movement.
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The Tea Party has very little to do with Ron Paul; most people just laugh at him as some old kook. His supporters just want marijuana legalized – they’re practically a cult. We can’t get any of them to do anything constructive in the political system unless it has to do with RON PAUL!!!!!!!
I think these kids are relatively harmless; what I am afraid of is that many of THEM don’t know who is behind all of this and what their pie-in-the-sky “dream” is all about. If they knew that this crackpot wanted them to give up all of their toys, they’d pack it up tonight and go home…..
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I mean both groups bring out the weirdos at the very least:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=tea+party+movement&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=610&tbm=isch&tbnid=o2usOdz3sFVi8M:&imgrefurl=http://blackpoliticalbuzz.blogspot.com/2011/08/tea-party-movement-morphs-into-tea.html&docid=HpUPedtzu7xwIM&w=404&h=300&ei=n_yUTuP6J-ng0QHB973oBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=810&vpy=290&dur=2656&hovh=193&hovw=261&tx=152&ty=77&page=5&tbnh=118&tbnw=189&start=86&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:86
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=occupy+wall+street&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=610&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=TZimMFDRmawj1M:&imgrefurl=http://www.inquisitr.com/147232/occupy-wall-street-goes-zombie-today/&docid=9TT6llJe2mKGnM&w=640&h=480&ei=Kv-UTq-rGIfq0gGci_XQBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=644&page=3&tbnh=115&tbnw=144&start=42&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:42&tx=103&ty=35
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Well, I like the colonial costumes, and I know that all college students like their Zombie marches; there’s nothing wrong with having a little fun….. 😛
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Left Testy, keep it up and Mother Teresa is gonna let me play.
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Take it easy on him, SD – I just realized that it’s a school holiday; all the kids are home today….
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It’s obviously an imposter.
Cheney’s Left Nut would be smarter, and capable of better arguments.
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Dang it! I’m running out of keyboards! 😛
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Hmmmm.
Lord of the Flies; with real flies!
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LOL! 😛
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This is my first visit. Teresa, you sound a lot like Molly Ivins +, who was still very funny, long after I realized her politics stank.
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I always loved reading Molly (she was a Texas gal, too) – I just agreed to disagree with her political views very early on. Thanks for the compliment!
(I assume it WAS a compliment? It’s very late…. 😛 )
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You know T does a great job responding to all posters, puts thought into what she writes (which some people may not agree but thats ok), and puts in a lot of effort…we should find a way to get her paid for this!! 🙂
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GAAAAHHH – I write for enjoyment; when people start paying you, they expect results on a schedule! 😛
Thanks for the kind words, though – it means a lot to me.
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Yes, of course, it’s a compliment. We have lived in Austin for forty plus years, and Molly was not only funny, but also rather nice, unlike some of the other Travis County Wymyn, who gave the term b***ch a bad odor. The blog is very nice, indeed.
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Awww – you’re a dear! Thanks so much ♥
Molly always struck me as someone who would have been fun to hang with (even if you didn’t see eye-to-eye on politics with her),
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Thank you for this post. I was wondering where the donations were actually going. Tonight, a facebook friend of my husband posted that OWS has gotten $150,000 in donated funds. His source, according to his post, is “The Occupy Wall Street General Assembly in NYC”. This guy is thrilled and calls the donors patriots. He called me cynical when I asked where all that money was going. He never did actually answer the question though.
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Yeah – my mind went out to play, and this was the “squirrel” that it dragged home with it…..
I figure it’s going to take these clowns about a year to decide – by consensus, of course – what to do with the $0.25 that’s left over when the lawyers from all of the special interest groups get through taking their cut –
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Which Koch are you, Charles or David?
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LOL!!!
(I don’t have the correct “equipment” to be either one…..) 😛
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Mrs. Koch, I think your dismissiveness toward OWS may be a case of wishful thinking; it is kind of counterintuitive I know, but those little anarchist air heads have channeled the rage of the working Joe’s (I mean the ones who know how to spell and are not into making a big show of arming themselves and disrupting public meetings) — — who are bearing the burden of the Wall Street shenanigans that have crashed the world wide economy and directed their personal economic futures onto a dead end street!
While acknowledging their deficits and quirkiness, they make one point that is absolutely elegant — — It is not enough to just vote because the system is broken due to the corrupting influence of money.
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I appreciate your opinion; however, if these kids feel this way, then where were they in 2008? 2009? 2010? What do you think the Tea Parties were all about? We’ve been shouting about this for the past 3 years, and we’ve been told that we are too stupid to understand what it is that we are talking about! Unlike the “little anarchist airheads”, however, we are willing to roll up our sleeves, get active at the grass roots level, and work to throw the bums out who got us into this mess in the first place. Unlike these kids, WE are quietly working behind the scenes, getting stuff done, and affecting political change throughout the nation.
AND WE VOTE.
The 2010 electoral landslide didn’t happen in a vacuum – it is precisely BECAUSE of all of the work that was done by those folks that Democrats were thrown out of office in record numbers – and their bench was cleared all the way down to the local levels. There isn’t anyone left for the Democrats to fall back on, because their “farm team” was wiped out for at least the next 15-20 years.
You may THINK that their point is “elegant”, but the sad fact is that over 50% of the kids at this protest DIDN’T BOTHER TO VOTE in the 2010 elections; I don’t know about you, but my high school government teacher said something that has stuck with me for the last 30+ years: “If you don’t vote, you don’t get to complain about the government that you get.” It’s that simple.
So far, I haven’t seen any evidence whatsoever that these kids plan on doing anything other than throwing a great big temper tantrum in public; when I do, then I will know that they are serious about making changes to the system, and I will start taking them seriously.
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Teresa,
You make a decent point about the young folks not voting; it does bother me and I don’t understand it. My daughter has many friends of the anarchist persuasion and she has tried to justify their point of view to me without much success.
I suppose they have just lost faith in a real democracy because of the corrupting influence of money; my personal solution in that regard is to support Obama and the Democratic agenda because they are progressive, not regressive and are clearly light years ahead in that regard — — Incremental reform yes but better than a sharp stick in the eye.
I was curious, so I attended a ‘general assembly’ of OWS booting up in my city’; there was a wide diversity of people there: anarchist; liberals and some ageing sixties radicals and some people who marched with the SCLC.
At first I was actually moved and enthralled, ready to march; later I kept thinking about how I deplore the concept of anarchy and how I do not care to be associated with the likes PETA and such groups who clearly have an influence on the evolving agenda there-in.
But that enthralling moment has stayed with me and I am watching as this movement grows exponentially and is gaining public support and I may just go down to the corner after work and maybe pick up a sign and hand our some sandwiches
I really don’t have to agree with everything they believe; the public does not have to agree with everything they believe either, to support them (as they already do in overwhelming numbers) in the simple concept that we are sick to death of the untoward influence of corrupting money on our democracy.
That one simple has a great appeal. resonates with the public and is setting the woods on fire!
If you think that the oligarchs can continue to preside over the dismantlement of the regulatory and social-safety-net aspects of our government, while they evade paying their fair share of taxes and deregulate Wall Street again so that they can come up with another bogus instrument to breach us on the shoal of another financial catastrophe — — You are completely delusional and you are trying to support a position that is unsupportable!
We are totally tired of this let them eat cake crap; dismiss them if you like, but what it is, is a shot across your bow!
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I’m glad that you are so enthused about this movement; I’m just sorry that you are being played by the people who organized it. This was neither “spontaneous” or “grass-roots”; a lot of planning went into this little camp-out.
And I’m sorry, but if kids are “disillusioned by democracy”, but they aren’t even PARTICIPATING in it, then they have no right to complain. All of the stuff that happened on Wall Street was a direct result of policies that LEGISLATORS and unelected agencies put in place. The people they should be angriest at are in Washington, not on Wall Street (they do realize that the big companies that they are protesting aren’t actually LOCATED on Wall Street, right?).
Educate yourself on the whys and wherefores of HOW things got to this point. Find out about the current Solyndra scandal, as well as the “green” firms that just this past week were given loan guarantees before the deadline passed (by the Democrats in charge of dispersing those funds), without having to go through all of the steps that normal companies have to go through – and don’t just rely on the progressive blogs for your information. The stuff that you will find is MADDENING and it is YOUR tax dollars that are basically being thrown away here.
We’ve been fighting this behavior since 2006, and our voices have not been heard.
You talk about “fair share” of taxes being paid by companies – please, GIVE ME A PERCENTAGE; what amount do you think is “fair” for a corporation to be paying in taxes? And remember – each additional percentage point that a billion-dollar company pays in tax is $1 Million that they will NOT be able to use to hire new employees and expand their company (and if they are able to expand their company, that will mean more profits, which in turn will mean more employees in the future).
For a company that makes a profit of $25 Billion, EACH percentage point that they have to pay in taxes means $25 Million that they will not be able to use to hire new employees. Bear in mind that one of the reasons that companies aren’t hiring right now is because the Democrats in Congress want to raise the amount that corporations pay in taxes to 35% – the highest in the world (the average in the US right now is around 30%). They have to hold enough money in reserve to cover their expected tax bills, which is why that money isn’t out there to hire new employees.
If those tax rates go up, you can expect to see many companies leave the US for good – and that will mean NO new jobs for Americans. If a company can pay less in taxes somewhere else, they are going to move their operations there – it’s that simple. People protesting on the streets and threatening executives at their homes (which is what is planned for this weekend’s festivities) doesn’t make it more attractive for these companies to stay here, either.
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Teresa,
This conversation is getting more and more over the top; please do not patronize me and suggest that I educate myself. I am well studied; I just do not happen to agree with you!
You said, ” All of the stuff that happened on Wall Street was a direct result of policies that LEGISLATORS and unelected agencies put in place.” Well yes, that may be literally true but it is lacking in depth, so lets enumerate it a bit — — All of those policies originated as ideas in libertarian think tanks and were incorporated into republican economic theory beginning with Ronald Reagan and later were later adopted by some democrats as well.
And over the years, corporations put plenty of money into those legislators pockets to influence the outcome and that is precisely the problem as so elegantly enumerated by OWS.
But I do not think any of those agencies even remotely imagined the arcane concept of credit default swaps or any of that other woeful crap that Wall Street was peddling that bought down the economy.
I think you have a very partisan way of selecting facts that is very immoderate and that is the reason that I am sleeping very well, thank you, secure in the assurance that the republicans are going to loose their gains, big time, because there is no place in that party for anyone who has so much as a moderate thought cross his / or her mind!
As I said, you are supporting what is unsupportable.
That’s all I’ve got to say, no more salvos your way. As the host, you’ve got dibs on the last word so go ahead and take your shot and we’ll call it a day.
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Oh, sweetie – I didn’t think they were salvos; I’m sorry if mine sounded that way! I wasn’t trying to take shots, I promise.
Have a great weekend; I hope you’re having nice weather where you are!
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Teresa,
I have so many tabs up about this subject right now, I can’t figure out how I got here but I want you to know I think you rock. I’m a bit further to the right than you are, but have been fascinated by this thread. You’ve just been added to my reader, where you keep company with the likes of Stacy McCain, Doug Ross, Hillbuzz, I Own the World, Iowahawk… well, you get the picture. Keep up the great work!
p.s. posting this link on FB as well. Hope you don’t mind. 😉
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Oh, my – I AM honored! I’m afraid I’m not quite as prolific as those other luminaries, and sometimes my posts are downright silly – I guess I’m going to have to step up my “A” game now….
Thanks for the kind words – they mean a lot!
(and by all means, post to FB – this little post has been seen by more people than I ever imagined….)
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Where can i get a hardcopy of the poster depicting a ballet dancer on top of the wall street bull? My girlfriend is a ballet dancer and i’d give her this poster for her birthday (in january!)
Does anyone have a hardcopy for me? I am a dutchmen who will run the nyc marathon in sunday nov 6th, we fly in on wednesday nov 3. Please keep in touch.
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I would imagine you can contact the OWS folks or Adbusters (Kalle Lasn) – Adbusters probably has it on their website as well…..
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